The Secret to a Bingeworthy Brand with Jay Jay

Courtney Elmer- 00:00

Today's episode is about building a binge-worthy brand, but not in the way that you might expect. Because while most of today's marketing experts are telling you that you need to have a professional brand identity and this beautiful aesthetic and compelling copy to build you following on multiple platforms, and while yes, these things are important to a degree, the real secret to a binge-worthy brand is not your content. It's not your aesthetic. It's not even your brand identity or your logo, or your messaging. It's your presence.

Courtney Elmer - 00:33

Globally ranked among the top shows in business and education, we are known for helping overworked online business owners navigate the ups and downs on the way to seven figures. Each week you are going to learn how to get the right systems, structure, and support in place so you can build a self-sustaining business that thrives in a rapidly changing digital environment and grow through what you go through to create greater income, influence, and impact you deserve. This is AntiFragile Entrepreneurship.

Courtney Elmer - 01:04

Welcome back! You're listening to AntiFragile Entrepreneurship™. This is episode 176, and I'm joined here on the show today by Jay Jay, an international speaker and the founder of Ace of Spades Media. Jay has been trusted by some of the world's most notable brands. Brands that I guarantee you love.

Courtney Elmer - 01:26

I'm not going to do any name-dropping here but go check out Jay's website, and you'll see what I mean. Jay has helped them gain media awareness and brand identity for their companies. But what's most interesting about Jay, and what I find most fascinating, is that in 2004, he started his career as a magician. But like most people in show business, he thrived in the show but failed in the business. He got rejected more times than he could count. And in 2009, he almost gave up. But he didn't let it stop him.

Courtney Elmer - 02:01

And he decided to pivot and start teaching magic tricks on a brand new video platform that we now know and love as YouTube. And 500 videos later, his channel became the number one how-to magic channel in the world, with over 57 million views and seen in over 150 countries. Now during this time, journalists started reaching out to him and putting him in the press, and featuring him on TV shows.

And because of it, he was able to triple his fees, and he was even offered his own magic show in Vegas. But it was then that he realized one thing, all along, it was never about the tricks or about how talented he was. It was about learning how to sell himself, not the magic. So if you want to build a brand that people rave about, even if you're a personal brand, especially if you're a personal brand, Jay is going to share his blueprint for getting millions of people to follow you, engage with you, and ultimately do business with you.

Courtney Elmer - 03:27

Jay, welcome. I'm excited to have you here today.

Jay Jay - 03:30

Thank you, thank you. I feel like I'm going to get drilled like Larry King right now. What happened in Vegas in 2011? I'm like; I wasn't there. It wasn't me.

Courtney Elmer - 03:40

This is going to be a great conversation. You know, you are someone who has built a ton of influence in your career with your brand identity. You've been an international speaker for 15 years now. What I'd really love to hear from you, Jay, to kick us off is how has your own message evolved over time. And what motivates you to continue sharing it with people around the world?

Jay Jay - 04:11

Well, firstly, thanks for having me. Did you come from a TV background or a journalism background?

Courtney Elmer - 04:15

I did not.

Jay Jay - 4:17

It's very authentic. It comes across as, yeah, this girl's been trained before. You know other pros, so maybe this is a new career for you, maybe this is a new play for you, so I want to applaud you for that. So the question was asked how long have I been sharing my message, and why I've been sharing my message?

Courtney Elmer - 04:38

Yeah, and how has that message evolved over the time that you've been sharing?

 Jay Jay - 04:42

Well, look, I started my career in Australia 17 years ago. I wanted to do two things. I wanted to stand on stage and tell people my story. I started in show business. I started as a magician. I started as a comedian. And that's why I always style up and still wear bright colors because I have a big ego. Peacock mentality, as we call it. My message has always been, I believe it's built from time because you've got to figure out your voice, you've got to figure out your story.

Jay Jay - 05:15

And it was at the beginning to get people's attention to make them have a good time. And then as it evolved from magic to TV hosting to speaking, to now helping people really go from where they are to where they want to get to. The message is evoved into finding my core, my core why, my core way of captivating an audience and sharing and really speaking to someone's soul. So I think it was very soft at the beginning of my career because I didn't know. I didn't know how to connect on that deep level. And I think this is what's happened to me. I started by using magic as a way to get at someone's attention.

Jay Jay  - 05:55

Then it was TV hosting and very much like very fun and playful, but now it's a level where I'm having very serious conversations with people about really what's the fear that's holding them back from getting to their dreams. The PR, the Meteor, That's just the tangible stuff that people buy because it makes sense. But what I'm really doing now with my message is like every day when I speak to people, it's hard because I'm hearing people say one thing, but they mean something else.

And it's very challenging pushing people through their fears and their limiting beliefs and their thoughts of money and their thoughts of self. Do I deserve to share this story? Why would someone listen to me? So I know that was a long-winded end, however, that's where it's at today.

Courtney Elmer - 06:48

I love that you bring this up because this is something that I have struggled with in my career and have learned how to do and become very passionate about you learning what power your voice carries. Whatever your message is, whatever your line of work is, whatever you're here to do, recognize that you do have a message worth hearing. As you said, you deal with a lot of people who don't really believe that. And I'm curious to know, was there a time in your career when you struggled to believe that as well?

Jay Jay - 07:21

It's funny you asked this, I got asked this question the other day on a podcast. Belief, I'm really fortunate because I traveled since I was very young, like 17 by myself, when kids would go to spring break, we call it schoolies, which is spring break here in America, right? So it's you go and party in Cabo and get loose and have fun and be naughty, but I actually went and travelled.

Jay Jay - 07:44

So, because that really wasn't what drove me, right? And I feel the belief of me has always been there, so to your question, It's never really been a problem of, like, I've never been scared in the way of sharing. I think it's figuring out which people or platform or what area I share with. That's been the vulnerability part of my life running around the world. Yes, I loved it. However, finding where I was meant to be. That was probably the scariest part of the fear because I'm doing this one thing, but it's not working.

Jay Jay - 08:29

I've not gravitated toward the people I'm speaking to. That's what happened in COVID. I was speaking to corporations, and it was not who I was meant to help. They would not agree. City Bank would be, yeah, this is great. Then Monday morning, they're back in the same position as they were before; that's not exciting for me. Why am I working so hard to make a living to help these people when they're just literally taking my notes going yet and then throwing them out of the window? So, yeah, it's your question. I think it's just been for me finding the right people and platform and stage to share.

Courtney Elmer - 09:10

Those things all have to come together because if not, it won't be personally fulfilling for you. As you just described, it's like, wait, why am I working so hard to help people that don't want my help, that doesn't appreciate it, that don't value what I do bring to the table, what I can offer? But Jay, you're someone who I've followed for a while now, and I feel you bring a lot of yourself into your brand.

Jay Jay - 09:32

It's all me, it's all me, but it's this energy, and it's this loud Australian guy that's got a lot to say, but I deliver. That's the other thing. I said this to someone last night. You always got this presence. I'm like, yeah, but I deliver. I give results. I don't talk. Like there's so much of this going on the internet, and there's so much of this fake it till you make it, lie to your die.

As I get, I come from show business, so I know what the feeling of this is to, you know, women do it every day. You put on makeup, right? I style my hair; there are elements of we want to look the perfect person, right? Otherwise, we would just do nothing, but I'm tired of this fake it till you make it and people just lying; it's like, if you're going to lean into your personality, you lean into it. Do it. Because it just breaks the mold.

Jay Jay - 10:32

People are, well, at least he's being honest. People love that. They don't get you at the beginning. They think you're weird. Then they're looking for the, oh, this is just an act. Then they are like, Oh, this is the real person; then they fall in love with you. Because people fall in love with the person that they know who they are.

In the beginning, they don't get it. Because it's uncommon. People are waiting for the hang-on; you have a wait. I know this is not really him, or this is really her. Oh, Shiva's. This is the real person. Oh, I love him or her for who they are. I don't get it, but I love him.

Courtney Elmer - 11:14

I think when we are courageous enough to show up as who we are and not hide that from people, It helps others be seen or feel seen in the sense that yes, it gives them permission to do the same, but that's the connection piece. And I see that connection at the heart of everything that you do. You know, you're in publicity, you help people get media, you help people get visible, right? You help them get all those cool logos they could put on their website and say, seen in, you know, all these fancy places. And that's awesome. But the way that you do it is so unique, I feel, because I know a lot of people who do publicity.

Courtney Elmer - 11:51

And it's a great field. It's a difficult field to be in. It's a lot of competition. And one of the things that stands out to me about your work is that everything's really built on the relationship that you're looking at when you're trying to get in front of that decision-maker. It's how I can stand out, not because of who I am or how many amazing things I've done in my life, but it's about how I can stand out to this person on their level in a way that they connect with and that they understand. And I would love for you to speak to that. Why is this the heart of what you do?

Courtney Elmer - 12:29

Yes, you're teaching people how to get noticed, but the way you teach them to do it is to go the extra mile to create a Real connection. Your pizza box or your giant gift are great examples of that. Talk to us about that. Why is that so important? Especially in today's day and age.

Jay Jay - 12:46

Well, yeah, just to give the list as context here. So on my Instagram, @JayJayLive, you can learn a lot about. I give a lot of daily content, things that are tangible and tactical; you don't need to pay a coach or pay me lots of money to implement. All that makes sense. I can do that. Oh, I never thought it that way. This stand for me for not having any support or manager or agent or coaches when I was young. I didn't have any support. I had to do it on guerrilla marketing to build a brand identity.

Jay Jay  - 13:18

I didn't know anything. And back in 2005, yeah, the incident was out. But I was still rocking DVDs tapes. So there wasn't the accessibility to put one question into YouTube, and then you could get answers. So a lot of the things I had to learn was Learn it from the ground up, and I realize that people buy into you, and if you really show them you care and you connect with them, it trumps everything.  yeah, they're going to be qualified to spend money with you. I get that, but let's say you have 50 people who are ready to give you money.

Why is this one person choosing you? And this one person not choosing you. Or why is this person choosing you when you are definitely not as qualified as this other company or this other person? But there's a reason. What is that? So I feel it's been for me the only way that I've been able to. I had to learn it the hard way because I didn't have the industry knowledge to lean on.

So I had to be, well, I can't get the client or get this speaking event because I'm the most experienced. I don't have the rich manager; I don't come from LA, California, so what else am I bringing to the table to be different? To be unique? And I feel a lot of people forget that. Even for me, I still lose deals all the time and I'm maybe I should have done, maybe I should have connected further before going in. Does that answer your question?

Courtney Elmer - 14:57

I think the connection is important and you mentioned something else. How do you differentiate? And how I'm curious to know, and this is my question to you next, how do you help people differentiate themselves? It is a very noisy marketplace out there. There are a lot of people who are all doing the same thing in whatever name your industry. There's a ton of coaches doing that thing. There are a ton of businesses doing that thing. What are some of the strategies that you teach and also use for your clients that you work with on the agency side to help them get noticed by the media.

When there are tons of people out there pitching, maybe something similar. Because they're representing someone else who does something similar. Let's talk about that differentiation piece.

Jay Jay -15:40

There are two strategies here, the one strategy which is the easiest to do, but the hardest thing to start is content, marketing because you're selling yourself. You've been watching me before this phone call, you feel you know me more than when we met through the community that we're in. You saw me, you heard me, you watched me, you're getting involved, building the relationship, so content marketing is great to build a brand, but most people are scared to do it.

So I'm with people; if you really want to stand out and be differentiable yourself, you have to show up and put this content out. No one can be; well I saw this the other day, no you didn't because it's you. So that would be the first start. my serious clients that really want to go to that next level, see the value of that because it's about building a brand and wealth.

It's like putting your real estate on the internet over the years. So that's one way, and then the other way that I would like for someone to get wins quickly is, what is the hook? We call it a hook in PR, right?

Jay Jay  - 16:41

What is going to catch them? So you're a business coach, great, no one cares. And I have to be; this is where I feel I win a lot more with people because I'm not afraid to tell people the truth I come from show business where they would look at you in LA, and they'd be like, you're fat. You're ugly, and they can say that. LA is the only place in the world where racism, stereotypes, prejudice, sex, etc., exists and because you're going for a role. So they can be extremely clear and be like, whether it's root truth or not, they'll be, the director, you're too fat for this role.

And as an actor, as an entertainment, you just have to be, okay, but you get hurt, you know? I've had all the worst things. You're too funny; you're too loud; you're too big ears. So, I think because I've come from that background of the reality of sometimes why people aren't choosing you, I'm allowed to lean into and be great, you're a business coach that's made six figures in a month or six figures in a year, great, no one cares. no one cares. Like, why? Like, what is that one thing? Oh, I've coached with the Dalai Lama; no one cares.

Jay Jay - 17:52

What else? We have to go to a deeper level. So I think to your question to find the ways for people to stand out, what is that? Why do people remember you? What is the one thing that makes you really different?
I try to use stories a lot, I'm like, hey, listen, let's say we're going to go for lunch for Richard Branson. Or I say, name is celebrity or name is someone you look up to. They say, Richard Branson. We're going to go for lunch with him. We have 10 minutes. He has $2 million to invest in your company. He's got it. He's ready. As he told me, he's ready to give it to you. But you go to go in and impress him. What are you going to say? And then you put them on the spot.

Exactly. So if you can't tell me how you're different now, how are you going to tell the market you're different on television in Forbes? And, I am the same too. How do I separate myself? How do I differentiate myself? So a lot of people, I don't even think they know the answer. Being good isn't good enough anymore. Having good winning clients is okay, but you always set that same level of income or impact. How do you get everybody thinking of you? Let's go to. As like, Oh, that's cool, that's unique.

Courtney Elmer - 19:12

Right. Do you think it's because whatever you are and whatever you do, maybe you're a coach? You teach whatever your industry is, you're photographer, whatever your business is. That sometimes we're too close to it, Jay, sometimes because we're in it every day, we're in the weeds; what we do, we know it better than anyone, and it can be difficult to articulate.

Do you see this a lot with your clients? Do you think that has any bearing on why they have difficulty being able to say, this is why I'm different, this is what I do, is that they struggle to even see it? I know this is something I've struggled with, this is why I bring it up and I'm curious to hear your take on it.

Jay Jay - 19:47

Yeah, of course. This is why branding agencies will hire other branding agencies. This is why publicists will hire other publicists. This is why coaches will hire other coaches. You're not alone. It's not weird. What's the classic saying? We don't see the picture when we're in the frame.

You don't see the problem when you're in it every day, right? This is why people have people like me to tell them the truth. You need to share with them the reality of what they don't see. It is a great win for us, but it's also a terrible win for us because we lose track of reality. If you keep getting wins in yesses and clients and deals, I get it, congratulations, but that's from your little community. Now I'm going to take you out of your community and put you in the deep blue sea with sharks that will eat you out for breakfast. It's going to be hard for you. Are you ready to understand the reality?

Jay Jay - 20:51

I think sometimes I'm like the messenger boy. Before you go to the next Ireland, I'm like, hey, before you go to the next Ireland, I just want to let you know what's going to happen. These things are going to happen. I think it's important to give people the reality of this is what it's going to take, and this is what things you need to be ready for.

And I think to kind of answer another question here because a lot of people feel this way. So they feel this when they come out and try to put their brand identity out there. Rejection is usually the biggest problem people don't move forward. The feeling of I'm going to be judged, the feeling I'm yeah, you are. And people think they're tough; they're not. That takes one comment one day, one time, and you're out. You're broken, you know?

Let's say a guy or a girl, let's say a woman's at that time of the month, and she's really emotional, right? She's in the morning, she just got out of the gym, she's having a smoothie, and she sees a comment come up on her phone, really, that's what you wore for the last video like that could just break her. Same thing with guys, you're on top of the world, you've just taken your Wi-Fi for your beautiful dinner, you look at your phone, you know why she's in the bathroom, oh cool, and you get an email. This is the worst piece of content I've ever seen. This is the reality of what it's going to take, and I think a lot of people are already for that. It's tough.

Courtney Elmer - 22:16

Yeah. Can you just grab a time when you've experienced that in your career? Something that really stung. You know, you're out there swimming with the sharks, and there's something just kind of hit you, and you go, oh, I did not see that. That hurt.

Jay Jay-22:29

Hey, Sarah, should we get out of the scroll of my emotions right now? Bring out the suitcase of all the issues. I tend to block these things out. I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing. When I came to America in 2017, I got my visa; I came in with a lot of belief in myself. I'm like, I got this, I came to LA to be a TV host, and I came in the hardest city to make it, the hardest industry and city to make it in the world. Show business in Los Angeles, please.

No one has given me another industry that's harder to make it than show business because there's always a way to make it work. Music, acting, singing, whatever. I would say it was just me not understanding why things weren't working, and that's what hurt me the most. I now remember. I'd go for these interviews and auditions, and the issue at hand was like I felt it was about talent, and I felt like you had to be the best. That wasn't the problem. The problem is I didn't know why I didn't get the job. And that's what hurt me the most. That's what really bothered me.

Jay Jay - 23:48

That was the biggest thing where I just got... that was the uncertainty of not knowing why. That's what bothered me. Because I want to fix it. If you say, Jay, I'm not going to work with you with this proposal because I feel like it's not a great fit or I just don't have the money. Great. At least we understand why. How can I work on this? Is it my fault? What can I do to fix it?

If someone says, just no, do you? No. Over and over and over again without having any understanding. That eats you alive. I don't know if that was a great answer to your question. It wasn't really one thing at one time, but that, over a while, just eats at you. Because you're in this limbo. Like, what do I do? And then people just give you this very cute advice. Oh, just work harder. Just go to more classes. Like, dude, that doesn't help me. Like is it me? Is it them? What am I doing? Should I be here?

Courtney Elmer - 24:49

How did you work through that?

Jay Jay - 24:53

I spoke to a lot of people. I spoke to a lot of people about what I'm going through. But I left what I work through that, and when I realize the reality, I look at reality, not look at What people tell me? I look at all the other actors and people in the business. I'm like, why are people not making it? Why are people struggling here?

You can be on top of the world as an actor, and then the next minute, you're working at Whole Foods. Someone explained that reality to me. I didn't get it, and I kept seeing it, and I'm such a visual learner. I look at patterns, and I look at people. Because of my industry, what I did for a long time, like my job, was to influence people, to get them to listen to me and have them in the palm of my hands.

So I could walk into any room, 500 people, and just like that, in 15 seconds, everyone would listen to me. That's power. So like, you know, I use it in a good way, right? So my job is to see things, understand things. It's like, that doesn't make sense. So I think how I got out of that was I realized, what is my why behind doing this?

Jay Jay - 26:03

Am I doing the wrong thing here, or can I create this in a different way? But I saw the darkness and the rabbit hole of uncertainty and security, drugs, and drinking if I went down this path. Look at a lot of these actors like Robin Williams and just listen to what they say. It's the same stuff as this. It's not real, and it's like you're high on life, and then you don't have work. It's like mentally; it's taxing. I got out of it by not playing that game. I'm like, this game is not wood good. This pool, this deep blue sea of this life, is not worth it. I don't know; this isn't it for me.

Courtney Elmer - 26:51

And I think applying that even to the business space, you know, the majority of our listeners are running a business. They want to build influence and brand identity. They want to build their visibility. They want to be seen. And yeah, sure, we've all got our egos tied up in that.

And I think that's the biggest thing to your point earlier about not putting ourselves out there. Not showing up because, oh, today I don't feel like it, or today I'm just not in the mood, or today I just feel like, I don't know. I've got too much going on today, right? And we give our power away when we do that. I'm guilty of it. I've started and stopped my content strategy.

Jay, I can't even tell you how many times. I'll get to this creative burnout place, and then I'll come back from it and be like, okay, I'm going to go for it. Then I'll burn myself out again and finally have started to figure out how to work through and around that because of my why because it is important to me to get my message out there. But I think what we see a lot, at least if you scroll social media for two seconds, you see a lot of people who have made it and a lot of people who are struggling to make it. What do you think is the difference that separates the two of them?

Jay Jay - 28:01

I think there are two answers to this. Let's tap on firstly the perception of who's made it. Let's just be real. They look like they've made it, and maybe they've made it, but you don't know the 14 years before that. Before we look at ourselves, hang on a second. Do we know the reality of the space here? I remember when stuff came out, like, oh, you can make 10 grand and 5 figures a month by doing TikToks.

I'm like, yeah, that girl is selling the program, but yeah, but she's also had an influence, she has an email list, she's running money on ads, she's obviously attractive and speaks well. So you have all these variables in her corner, and you're John Smith from Iowa that has an idea that buys the program. John, you don't understand all the other things you're missing here. She's selling you on the idea, but what about all this stuff underneath the... So I'm quick to tell people before you believe that.

Jay Jay - 29:00

Let me just tell you the reality, right? And I like what you said about the why. I just... You'll like the video. I just posted on my Instagram this morning. Find the person's why. If you look at my Instagram, it'll be in my story; I'm speaking at an event, asking what's your why? Why? Why? I feel like a lot of people don't have the right support and guidance for what they're doing. They don't have the right strategy. Anyone can do videos, but the thing is, you need to be able to have the right strategy behind that, otherwise, you're wasting time.

And I think the biggest thing about this is where the ego comes into play. Like, if people say I've been doing content for like six months for brand identity and it's not working, I'm quick to find out. I can tell them the reason why, right? I'm like, show me that you did it for six months. Who have you been working with? Oh, no one. So you're just doing it on your own and just like randomly doing it. And I just shut up because they need to understand where they made their fault. Because they are quick to blame everything else. I'm doing this; I'm doing this; I'm trying this.

Who do you pay to give you the right guidance to do this? Well, no one? Okay. Yeah. And let them realize, oh, he's got a good point.

Courtney Elmer - 30:23

Right. I know that you're on a mission to help people get more visible and create brand identity, right?
You've experienced a lot of that yourself in your career, the good and the bad, but also helping people get their message out there. So if there was something you were to leave our audience with today, those listening right now who are here listening to every word that you've said, Jay, and they're like, yeah, I get it. And what's the next step I need to take? What would you tell them?

Jay Jay - 30:50

The first step you need to take is you need to stop telling yourself you're an introvert and you're shy. I say this with the words you tell yourself a lot to make you fly or make you die. We'll fuel you or fail you or bring you up or bring you down. Before we go out and look at the world, let's look at the inner. Yo, are you telling yourself every day you're not attractive? You don't deserve it?

No one wants to hear my story. Oh, what I do is silly. Yeah, tell yourself that, and that will keep happening. So the first thing is, like, what are we telling ourselves? And second thing, whether you work with me, whether you work with you, like don't make the mistake I did for so many years for my ego is like go out and invest into something, in someone, in some way whether it's a $100 on an e-learning course, $10,000 for... I don't care. Why? Who told you that you're supposed to know the answer?

Even speaking of myself right now, I got to think of something like why I'm trying to figure it out. Why? Whose ego is that? This is the amount of money I can comfortably spend without going broke right now onto getting help. Who is the best person with this investment that I can use to help me? How nice is that from just letting go of a mindset play?

I've got money; I need help; who can help me? Then you try to spend 9 days to figure it out all yourself, which is frustrating, it bothers you, doesn't work. Why do we do this?

Courtney Elmer - 32:25

For 90 days or 9 months, or 9 years.

Jay Jay - 32:30

Old 9 years, you know. And the same thing with relationships, same thing with dating, same thing with health, same thing with spiritual. Why are we trying to figure it out all by ourselves? I'm not being harsh on the audience; I'm being harsh on me. This is a paying 10 years that I spend too long Why am I trying to figure it out all myself?

And here's the great thing too. You don't always need money. Money is just the way that we transact time right now. But there are other ways; if you creatively don't have the funds, be creative. Can you give your value to them in some way? Can you do something for them in some way? Money is just you use that to get their respect and attention, which everybody should do. Hey, I want your time. How much does it cost you for an hour of your time? That's a great tangible piece of value for people.

Respect people's time. Don't try to win; win. Do you know what you'll say? Oh, let's do a win, win. You don't have money. Collaborate; you don't have money. I'm not going to say that, right? But go use the money to get, hey man, love to get your support. What would it cost me for 20 minutes of your time? Hey, how great do I have to join your program? Great. Like go and get help. And that will really help people get to that next level.

Courtney Elmer - 33:43

Yeah, so simple and yet something that is all too often overlooked. Jay, thanks for being here today. Thanks for sharing your story and your journey and for the work that you do, and for those listening today who want to connect with you; they want to follow and learn from you. I mean, you've got over a million followers on Instagram. You must be doing something right. Where can they find you?

Jay Jay - 34:03

You know I'm a big believer that I do what I sell. If you're listening right now and you're at a point where it's like, I'm working it, and maybe you're making money, maybe you're making 5, 10, 15, 20 grand a month, but you're like, I'm not seeing predictability, or it's not, I need to get known. I can help you, so we need to just have a look at all that you're doing and how's it working and reach out.

Aceofspadesagency.com and tell me that you saw me on Courtney's podcast here and let's talk. You've got to treat it like a business. I think I forgot to mention that. The problem with personal branding and the problem with these coaches, consultants, You go to treat it like a business, not a hobby. You wouldn't start a restaurant with $1. Why would you do that with your own brand identity?

Courtney Elmer - 35:05

Jay, thank you for being here. Appreciate you.

Jay Jay - 34:08

Absolutely, thank you.

Courtney Elmer - 35:10

And thank you so much for joining us here today on another episode of AntiFragile Entrepreneurship™. Now if you want to connect with Jay and get his help to leverage PR and national media so you can increase your credibility, brand identity and, have more authority, stand out, and get others to choose you over your competition, then make sure you head to the show notes to connect with him.

And at the very least, tap that follows button on Instagram because he's over there every day sharing tips on how you can create meaningful connections with decision-makers and get in front of the media and grab their attention. And get your brand identity featured and ultimately make more money simply by leveraging your expertise and skills without having to work longer hours or take on more clients.

Courtney Elmer - 35:56

If you liked this episode and you know a friend who would benefit from it, it would mean the world if you just tap the share button and send it to them. And if you love this show, then it would mean the world to me if you would scroll down in your Apple app, tap the 5 stars and write a sentence or two and let me know what you love most about this show. And as always, if you want to connect with me personally, I hang out the most on Instagram. I'm there @thecourtneyelmer.

Courtney Elmer - 36:23

I would love to see you in my feed, so come follow me there. And next week, Next week, my friend, we are talking about the trap of perfection. We're going to talk about why entrepreneurs struggle with this so much. Even when they actively try not to let it get in the way of them starting that podcast or writing that book, or hitting publish on that Instagram story. And we're gonna break it down and talk about how much it's costing you to wait until the right time or to make the right decision. So join me back here next week, and until then, let's go out and grow through what we go through together.