How to Know When It’s Time to Pivot with Laura Meyer

Courtney Elmer - 00:00

Should you write it out? Or is it time to walk away? Do you burn the ship and start over? Or do you just pivot? These are questions that every single entrepreneur has asked themselves at one point or another during the low points in their business journey.

And today, we're exploring the power of micro-decisions and how to weigh the short-term benefits versus the long-term consequences of any decision you're faced with. So, whether you're experiencing a period of business uncertainty right now or you just want to be better prepared for when that time comes. This episode is for you.

Courtney Elmer - 00:42

Globally ranked among the top shows in business and education, we're known for helping overworked online business owners navigate the ups and downs on the way to seven figures. Each week you're going to learn how to get the right systems, structure, and support in place so you can build a self-sustaining business that thrives in a rapidly changing digital environment and grow through what you go through to create greater income, influence, and impact you deserve. This is AntiFragile Entrepreneurship™.

Courtney Elmer - 01:13

Has there ever been a time in your business when you wanted to quit, and maybe you quite quit, where you took a back seat and just started going through the motions, showing up, touching your business every day, posting once or twice a week to social media, answering incoming emails, but doing the bare minimum, hoping that you could hang on long enough until you reach a point where you just feel like yourself again?

And maybe you even felt the effects of that stress physically in your body, Your hair falling out, losing weight or gaining weight, losing sleep, calling up your therapist for extra support.

I've been there. And the reality is being an entrepreneur is hard. And if that's how you feel, you're not wrong for feeling that way. God bless my husband for being married to me for 10 years and sticking with me through all the ups and downs along the way. But the truth is, When you can simply own the fact that moments like these are normal parts of running a business, you'll begin to breathe a little easier. We all experience low points like this at some point or another. You won't see it on someone's Instagram.

Courtney Elmer - 02:34

But I guarantee you that behind the scenes, they've experienced it. They know exactly what it feels like. And I'll be the first to tell you. But in these moments, even though it can sometimes feel like the entire success or the fear of failure of your business is hinged upon the choices you make at this moment, it doesn't have to be all or nothing. It's not right or wrong.

There's no do or die. There is a third and more viable option.

The problem is most entrepreneurs never realize it. They're so afraid of making the wrong move that they are literally paralyzed, stuck in their indecision, frozen, and unable to move forward. Because when we're faced with a decision, there is a strange but fascinating phenomenon that takes place in our mind. And I shared all about it in episode 151. So if you want to nerd out with me a little bit on how the very verb tense that you use in describing your situation is so critical to your ability to move to make choices or stay stuck and weighed down. Then make sure you go back and listen to that episode.

And this is one of the reasons that I invited Laura Meyer to join me on the show here today. Because Laura is a serial entrepreneur who has scaled seven different six and seven-figure online and offline companies over the last 20 years. And she's also helped hundreds of clients scale to the same level.

Courtney Elmer - 04:12

So, first of all, she knows what works when it comes to growing a company. But Laura also knows firsthand about navigating the lowest of the low points in business. The big mistakes. The fear of failures that seem impossible to come back from. Because she knows her darkest valleys are the fertile ground for the success and growth, she's been able to experience. And as a best-selling author, a keynote speaker, and a growth consultant to national brands, she is a wealth of wisdom when it comes to navigating difficult decisions in business. And today, she's here to help you get clear on why it's not the big decisions that you need to make.

But the small ones that you make every day have the greatest impact on the trajectory of your business. And she's going to share with you the practical tools that you can use right now to navigate any moment of uncertainty with confidence. To know whether it's time to jump ship or stay the course. And ultimately to find joy in the journey, especially during those difficult times, and seize the lessons that are there for you along the way.

Courtney Elmer - 05:41

Laura, welcome! I'm delighted that you're here. This is going to be an incredible conversation. You bring so much wisdom and experience to the table, and I know our listeners are going to learn a lot from you today.

Laura Meyer - 05:53

Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here, and yes, I've learned a lot in the last 20 years. I learn more from my mistakes than my successes.

Courtney Elmer -06:01

Well, that's really what I'm interested in, those mistakes, right? I got you to where you are, like, let's talk about that. I know you were telling me right before we hit record you had a moment, you called it a burn-the-ship moment, and I feel like I relate so much. I think so many people listening have had that moment where it's like, Gosh, do I just give up on everything that I've worked so hard to build?

Courtney Elmer - 06:23

And there's a lot that's tied up in making decisions like that. Do I let it go? Do I pivot? You know, what does this mean about me if I choose this versus that? I'd love for you to tell us that story. What was it like to go through that in this particular instance where you had that moment? And what did you learn from it? 

Laura Meyer-06:44

Yeah, so good. So today, I'm a consultant; we'll get into that. I have a really nice, wonderful team and consulting business, but about five years ago, I spent the first 15 years as an entrepreneur in the brick-and-mortar world. So I had a children's portrait studio and franchised it and grew it to be about 12 locations. We had 12 locations, I think, open and 16 sold. And I saw some pretty big shifts in the photo industry about a year before I closed everything down. I fought it hard. I stopped selling franchises, but my goodness.

Laura Meyer - 07:23

I noticed that technology had really changed the customer value perception. We were seeing sales decline. Our franchises were struggling when they were opening in ways that I had not struggled when I opened my company on locations. I didn't think the number of challenges we were facing was going to be worth it in the end, just with how much was shifting in the external environment, not only with camera technology in phones but also with the number of products that were popping up online and how inexpensive they were in pretty good quality. I made the tough decision to shut everything down. That was just about five years ago.

Laura Meyer - 08:10

It was really challenging, and I would say it was really challenging from a standpoint, of course, my identity and who I was very much built up in that company. I wouldn't even go to grocery stores for months after closing because I was so afraid I'd run into customers, and they'd ask me about it, and I would have to answer them. And then, conveniently, we went into a pandemic about two years later, so I didn't really have to answer questions about it for a while in my local community.

All joking aside, I was the person associated with that brand, and it was really, in a lot of ways, my first baby. When I made that decision, I had a lot of difficult phone calls to make. I had thousands and thousands of customers to communicate with around gift cards and options and refund options. I'll say that I did it thank God I did it while I had money in the bank account, and I saw it going in a direction that I didn't think was going to end well.

Laura Meyer - 09:10

So it gave me some flexibility. I was able to pay my employees well; I was able to, you know, get them, give them a runway onto other jobs. I made dozens of personal phone calls to get them into roles that some of them now still have. And it was, you know when you're sinking, it's hard to do the right thing. But I think, in retrospect, I have my own back on how that was handled, and I think it contributes a lot to why I get to sit here today and tell you this story.

Courtney Elmer - 09:47

You said something a moment ago that I found so interesting and so spot on about how our identity gets wrapped up in what we've built. Obviously, we put our time, our heart, our soul, our blood, our sweat, our tears into whatever it is, the thing that we've built.

Courtney Elmer - 10:02

When it comes down to these do-or-die moments and these pivot points, How do you evaluate what the right move is? You made it sound very easy just now, it was like I saw it was not going this direction, you know, I was going this direction, so this is the decision I made, and yeah, there were some hard phone calls, but we got through it, and I'm curious to know like on a personal level for you, how did that, did you have identity shifts there? Did you struggle with that?

Or was it a little bit more straightforward because you knew who you were here to serve and the direction that you were going, and that made it easier to take those steps?

Laura Meyer  -10:39

I would say the lead-up to the decision was actually the most mentally tough piece of it. Like I knew that it wasn't working, I was trying every possible thing, I was trying to pivot and shift, but pivoting 12 different locations across the country with franchisees who may have different opinions about how they want things to look and feel, or they want the business model that they quote unquote signed up for, even if the market doesn't want that business model anymore.

That was much more stressful, I would say. I remember my kids were in preschool at the time, and I remember having a friend pull me aside, and she's like, do I need to call somebody? Because you look like you need to maybe get committed somewhere. My hair was falling out. I was losing weight. I say it now because I've done a lot of work.

Laura Meyer - 11:27

But at the time, when I talk to people who are going through something like that, I'm like, oh yeah. I have deep compassion because it's really nothing like it, and when you're an entrepreneur, it's hard to explain to anybody else what it feels like the fear of failure. I was experiencing loss, and I was mourning, and then as I made the decision, it was horrible - those phone calls.

I remember sitting down with my team in a room and saying I've decided to make this decision, and this is what it looks like, and this is what the next steps are, and this is when we'll be shutting down, and this is when you'll be paid until. What I'd like to do is I'd like to email out the database with all of your resumes to get them together. We had like 6,000 people in our database, and I did that. I sent out an email that said, I can't remember what I wrote, but I wrote higher than some of the smartest people around, something like that with all of their LinkedIn and descriptions.

So, I think in those moments, I was very determined. Once I made the decision, I wanted to do it right. I wanted to do the right thing. I was talking to lawyers. I was on the phone with lawyers all the time. You know just wanting to do it right. 

Laura Meyer - 12:39

Because I think in that moment, I understood the power of the story that I got to tell years later. And I think it was like I kept telling myself, and I had some really wise counsel too of like, what is the story I want to tell about this situation? Do I want to say, you know, I told, I like, lock the door and unplug the phones? You know, like, that's not, that's not the story I want to tell, right? And it would have been much easier to do that and send everybody home. But, you know, I think, I think just knowing like that there, this was not It was the end of this company, but it wasn't the end of my entrepreneurial career, or it wasn't the final of anything. It was just a closed door, and I think having that perspective really helps.

Courtney Elmer - 13:33

That is such an insightful perspective, and surely that's at the heart of antifragility. We talked a lot about that year on the show, but we've got listeners that are joining us for the first time. It really is about growing through what you go through. And what you said there just at the end, Laura, was so impactful about how it wasn't the end of your entrepreneurial journey.

And I've been faced with those moments and even though I haven't shut down a company and started a new one, there've been many pivot points along the way where we've turned off certain offers, we've shifted our messaging completely from what my business did five years ago, looks totally different from what we do today. And there was something you mentioned a moment ago about how once the decision was made, then it was like you could move forward.

Courtney Elmer - 14:19

And I'm curious to know, do you see this in a lot of the businesses that you work with, the consultants that you work with? You mentioned that you personally even really felt the struggle before the decision was made. Like that's where the stress comes from. That's where the internalization and the difficulty we have comes from. Feel that we're not in momentum, that feeling of stuckness, and the fear of failure that we often feel. So when we're in those moments, and you had a lot of counsel along the way, what are some things that we should be looking out for ourselves, questions that we could be asking ourselves to help us get in motion, to decide, to move forward and not to just him and Hall over this, you know, what do I do? Because, like you said, once you decide, Then you can move, but it's that point of indecision the fear of failure, that really keeps us stuck in action.

Laura Meyer -15:26
And I think that's a difficult decision in life, right? Like relationships, marriages, friendships, and businesses. When do you keep trying harder? And when is it time to just stop, right?
And that's a really nice job, I think, outlying his perspective on how to kind of manage the dip.
But I would say that when I looked down the road, I didn't see this getting better. Like there was no Glimmer of hope. And I'm a very optimistic person. I think the best in people and situations, I think as entrepreneurs, we all are. It's what gives us the motivation, I think, to have a business.
Because statistically, you know, the odds are against us in entrepreneurship, so we have to be optimistic. We have to be very much oriented toward what can go right versus what can go wrong. But when you're a very optimistic person and all you can see There's no glimmer of light, no path forward, no possible angle, no solution.

Laura Meyer - 16:34
I think it's hard to move forward. I think it's hard to move forward. It's like you don't have that sense of belief anymore. I think, too, taking that time with it is really important as also making sure that We're making the decision for the right reason. Not because we're uncomfortable or we're tired, then it's like, okay, we're uncomfortable, and we've got work to do. We're tired; we need to rest. But because from a strategic standpoint, it wouldn't even be logical to keep going.

Laura Meyer - 17:03
And that's really what I saw. I saw it as emotional as it was, just logical like the market conditions are not going to support this offer. And within the paradigm of franchising, you really can't change the business model. And I think that was really interesting too, because during that time it was triage, right? And if you've ever been in an accident or you've ever been on the scene of an accident, that is actually not when it's most stressful, right? In a weird way.
If you're the kind of person that's good in an emergency, which I am because, You know, I worked weddings for many years, I was around families and children, skinned knees, blood; you're like, I got this, like let me help out, no problem, right?

Laura Meyer- 17:47
And you're quick on your feed, and you can help in a crisis. But when it's usually after the triage that you're like, oh my god, what just happened? And that was my process for years, so I really worked on myself so much, and I know that sounds probably so cliché, right? But just my own spiritual journey, self-forgiveness, neutrality, uncircumstances, the fear of failure, you know, I have a great team, and I have an amazing business, but I actually don't know if I would have it if I hadn't gone through that. Because it brought a level of maturity. Before that, I was one of those high-risk-taking quick, start visionary entrepreneurs that thought everything was possible, which I still do, but it's balanced with Just a much more mature perspective now on what the risks are on different decisions, what the likelihood is, and I come with a much a more balanced approach to entrepreneurship that, again, I think it was the only way I could have learned that as much as painful as it was.

Laura Meyer - 19:04
And I'll take, you know, it's five years later now, and it's still hard.
You know, I got a LinkedIn message about a month or two ago from somebody who, out of the blue, Wrote me probably a drunken scathing paragraph message that told me how horrible I was and from the portrait studio. And I think she worked for us for like two weeks, and it didn't work out, and I don't remember the circumstances of her leaving. I remembered her name, but I was like, you worked for us. So, what was good is I was able to stay neutral.
I'm like, so you're saying as you work for us. And in that moment, I reacted this way as far as you recall, and I can see how that would be really hard.

Laura Meyer - 19:47
Let me share with you a little bit about what was happening at that time. It was about a year before we shut down, and I was like, I was in a bad place, and I'm really sorry if it hurt you.
And she was floored. She's like, first of all, you know, I shouldn't have sent that. I sent it when I was under, you know, bad circumstances. And she's like, in the second of all, like, thank you.
And I think that comes from the work we do within ourselves, not fake positivity or toxic positivity or anything like that. I think being able to view something like that is neutral. I think it took five years of deep work.

Courtney Elmer-20:29
So much so. It's interesting you bring up Seth Cohen's book. I often describe these valleys in our life, these low points. All we want to do is climb out of the valley as fast as possible. We want to be at the top. We want to feel good. We want to feel like ourselves. We want to feel like things are in control. But if you look back at these ancient civilizations, they didn't settle at the top of the mountain. They built their villages in the valley because it's the most fertile ground.

Laura Meyer-20:55
Right.

Courtney Elmer-20:56
And what you just described about how this whole experience gave you a perspective that you would have never had. Had you not had that experience, and has allowed you to build the business that you've built now and grow other people's businesses as well. Because I mean, you've built multiple six and seven-figure businesses, and you've worked with multiple business owners to help them do the same thing. And so it's your perspective and the knowledge, like you mentioned, Personal growth that you experienced because of these difficulties that you faced. That's really brought you to where you are today. I'd love to ask you about how you had to really get clear on who you are and what was important to you and really just get back down to basics in order to allow that to be the thing that guides you forward. Why is this so important for us as entrepreneurs, especially when we're growing and scaling the business?

Laura Meyer-21:54
Yeah, I mean, I think when you go through something hard, and I mean, that was a snapshot in time. One of the stories that I get to craft right through this experience is that in the last 20 years, I had a lot of wins. That 24-month period does not define my entrepreneurial career.
It tends to be the most interesting, you know, in terms of conversations because I think, you know, a lot of people have experienced something like that, and they might be curious about what it might feel like or how to navigate it. Retelling your story and allowing it to transform is really important. It creates a requirement, I think, whenever we're going through something hard. It creates a requirement of going into that deeper place of motivation within ourselves.
Richard Rohr, who is a theologian and a friar, I love his books, but he says transformation takes place not when something new begins but when something old falls apart. That's when we get to Start getting into who we are, really, because that business came before my children.
It was, in so many ways, my first baby.

Laura Meyer - 23:04
And so, you know, who am I when I'm not tied to that business? Who am I when I'm not an entrepreneur? What do I stand for? What's important to me? And I started getting more into, I think, a very, I always had a values-driven approach to business as a guiding light. And I had one team member in particular As I continued into this company, if I'm going to do something where I could completely let go of the outcome, regardless of whether or not it succeeds or fails, what would I be proud of even if it fell apart? That we get to do when we are transforming and recreating, and it's the work that we do with every decision point that ends up becoming the roots of growth, beating the fear of failure..

Laura Meyer - 24:10
I think a lot of times, people want to get into tactics, and I love a good marketing tactic.
In fact, we're compensated quite well by well-known brands and organizations to come to them with really great tactics. That helps them get results quickly. But when it comes to the entrepreneurial journey, tactics and strategies are quite secondary to the transformation to who we are, how we show up, and what drives the process in which we make micro-decisions every day. And there's been times, even in the last six months, because we're on a pretty fast growth trajectory. We're that intuition that I used to ignore popped up again, and I recall pushing it down in the past. I'm in anagram three, so I love to push that emotion down so that you never feel it and plow ahead with success and achievement.

Laura Meyer - 25:11
But as it was coming up for me, I started paying attention to it. And I think those are the moments where I was like, oh my gosh, okay, good. In retrospect, I think that could have really held us back. Or, oh my gosh, you know, I had a badge we're making a big hire right now, and I had a strange feeling about something, and I checked into it with a reference, and I was blown away by how much that gut feeling was right, even if on paper it looked to be quite the opposite. So, you know, I think these are the things that we can pay attention to when we're clean. When we approach things from a really clean perspective and when we allow the work to mature, we bring what is most important to us to the surface and when we can truly let go of outcomes.

Courtney Elmer-26:09
Rewinds like the past three minutes; it goes back and listens to all of that again. Because it's the stuff that's the easiest to lose sight of when we're in those moments that feel like everything is chaos and everything is falling apart, and we know we need to be taking better care of ourselves, and we know we're in survival mode, but we don't know how to get out of the fear of failure. And you mentioned, I love that phrase, micro decisions.

Courtney Elmer-26:34
You know and become more attuned to really how you feel about something, even if that's not your natural inclination, and to not ignore that. And that's a practice in and of itself to be able to get quiet enough to listen to that, to give it weight and not just push it aside or shove it down, and to let that inform the little decisions that we make. you can give us some examples of some of these micro-decisions. For someone listening right now, we might be in a similar situation in their business where maybe they are recognizing that what they're doing isn't what they need to be doing. Maybe it doesn't mean burning the ships, but maybe it means going in a new direction. How can we become more attuned to those little moments when we need to make those little decisions?

Laura Meyer-27:22
Yeah, we've had a lot of them lately. I'm thinking about one that might be most applicable to your audience; We had a launch plan this month in May. Actually, I'd probably be preparing for it right now for next week, and on paper, it made the most sense to launch. We have a waiting list for our program. We cap enrollment, and this is our consulting certification program. We cap enrollment to small numbers because we have various revenue streams, and I'm not looking to have thousands of people in a coaching program. And we have people literally messaging me every week about when it will open up again, so I knew we would fill it. And I postponed the launch till September. It also would have brought in probably six figures in revenue. I didn't think that the short-term benefit of bringing through launching would be worth the long-term consequences of doing it understaffed. I just didn't.

Laura Meyer - 28:24
I just knew it would stretch my team, and I know a lot of entrepreneurs do that, right?
We have to launch, we've got it on the budget, it was on my budget, it was on everything, right?
And I just was like, I'm going to be stretched; my team's going to be stretched. Our consulting practice is growing rapidly. I've already committed to those clients coming on because we have a waitlist. So we had four clients come on this month. We have spots for three clients next month. Those were probably about to get filled. And we can only onboard so many clients at a time without our current staffing, so I knew I needed to hire another full-time team member before I could even think about another launch for this program. That was hard. Like, and what was happening is we were getting ready for the launch, I had paid for the copy to be done, and when the copy was delivered in my inbox, I was like, we can't do this. Like, it was just this little voice of like, we can't This is not going to work. And it was like these little things that would happen as we were getting ready for launch. And I would be like, we have the capacity for this.

Laura Meyer - 29:31
And it was like, I ignored it, and then I paid attention to it. And honestly, if we were launching right now, I cannot imagine how stressed our team would be. They'd be so stressed. We just got back from the University of Notre Dame, not even a week ago. There will always be time to launch. It's just money. Money comes and goes. And I think having that experience combined with that intuition I think is something that I've just gotten so much better at paying attention to. If this was me ten years ago, I would have been like, let's move the launch up! I just was that entrepreneur, and I think having that, let's do it, we've got weightless, let's go! And I just think now I have a different perspective.

Courtney Elmer-30:41
And I want to make sure that our listeners catch what you've said multiple times as you've shared your story here today. And this is, may or may not consider it a practice. You're probably aware you're doing it, but this is what I want to make sure our listeners get this, is that there were so many times in your journey when you looked ahead and imagined yourself five years down the road, ten years down the road, fifty years down the road, looking back on this moment. And how that puts things into such perspectives so quickly. Because you can look back and say, oh, I wouldn't regret making this move or that move. Or I really would regret this or that. And let that be your guide. And I think that right there is so powerful. And you mentioned that you know, with this launch too, it's realizing like there's no way we could have done it.

Courtney Elmer - 31:33
And then being free to make that decision and move forward. Not just saying, stuck in, do I do it this way or that way? What's the best thing to do? What's the right thing to do? What's the wrong thing to do? I'm afraid of the fear of failure; I'm afraid of this or that. And just one simple way to get perspective is just kind of look ahead. It's ten years down the road, and you're looking back; what decision would you make at this moment? And that is so valuable.

Laura Meyer-31:58
I would say, too, I think a lot of people don't fall their intuition when it comes to money.
And I would say that my relationship with money has changed a lot since essentially losing everything when I closed down that business to having what we have today, which is a vastly improved financial situation. And I think, too, we get into programs, and we get into formulas, and there have been so many times when it came into the online space, I would get into this one's program. I'd be like, the numbers don't add up. Two plus two doesn't equal three.

Laura Meyer - 32:32
This doesn't make sense. And I think sometimes people follow blindly too. So I would say like just being present and doing things that make sense. Like I think when we talked about launching, and that's what made me think of it, I think a lot of entrepreneurs really rely on launching to pay for things, right? Whereas if you can have a sustainable business where launching a launch is nice to have, but it's not a make or break because it's so erratic, right?
What happens during them? Then you will have a much healthier relationship with your business. I tend to keep a pretty high room margin for error in my business, both with finances and With my time; things will always take longer than we... One thing I know about entrepreneurship, things will always take longer than we think they will. Because we're optimists, remember that. It'll always be more expensive than we think it will be. That team member will onboard slower than we think they will. And just kind of having that grace around it, I think for ourselves, it just improves our ability to have a healthy relationship with our business. I think that really also does. You know, thinking about it that way.

Laura Meyer - 33:41
What is the relationship I want to have with my business? Do I want to have a frenetic and, you know, impatient relationship? Or do I want to have a positive, uplifting, and graceful relationship? And I think that's a good thing to think about too.

Courtney Elmer-33:55
Laura, I feel like you have given us so much hope today. And just the freedom of, like, gosh, it doesn't have to be this hard. It doesn't have to be so serious. We can just, just Move forward with grace and with ease and with knowing that even if it doesn't turn out as we expected it to, there will always be opportunities for growth along the way. You will always learn what you need. I had a mentor for the longest time who would say, you need to get what you want or you learn what you need. I'm like; it's so true, it's so true in this journey. What you've just shared is like a breath of fresh air because where everyone is saying, do this, do that. You've got to scale; you've got to do that in writing, putting this urgency and this pressure on us to build or look or be or show off a certain way. You've just given us permission to do it how it works for you. So thank you for that, and thank you for sharing your wisdom and your insight here with us today. This has been so valuable.

Laura Meyer -34:56
I am so glad, and it's interesting because, at the beginning of the interview, you know me as a growth strategist. So immediately you're like, hey, let's talk about tactics to get to seven figures, and I'm like, I can. I actually don't think that's what it's about, and you're like, really? And I was like yeah, let me tell you a little bit of my story, you know, and that's how this podcast interview started, and I think it's like listening to those little moments of like yes I can, I can help in this way, but I wonder if I can help even more in this way or serve even more in this way and I think as we the flow state comes from listening to those little voices, you know It really does. And in the moment you said it, I was like, oh yeah, absolutely, that is the direction.

Courtney Elmer - 35:34
You don't know that little voice in me that was like, yeah, this is actually what our community needs. Not what I had necessarily maybe envisioned for how this episode would flow.
And it turned out completely differently than I expected and so much better. So thank you for just being willing to share that little voice with me, and thank goodness I listened to it within myself, right? And just let this be an example for you listening to about how powerful that really can

Laura Meyer-36:01

Thank you so much.

Courtney Elmer-36:06
And thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of AntiFragile Entrepreneurship™.
Make sure you head to the show notes to connect with @Laura .

Courtney Elmer - 36:12
We've linked her book there, and we've linked her social profiles and her website so you can go and follow her and connect with her and continue to benefit from her depth and wealth of knowledge and wisdom. And if you liked this episode, if it made a difference for you, chances are it'll make a difference for someone else that you know. So I would love it if you would hit the share button and send this episode to a friend. And if you're a long-time listener and you haven't left a review yet, it would mean the world to me if you would just take 60 seconds today, scroll down in your Apple app, tap the five stars, and leave a review to let someone else know why this show was worth listening to. And as always, if you want to connect with me personally, come hang out with me on Instagram. That is my social media platform of choice.
I'm there every day in my story showing you behind the scenes of running my business, and you can connect with me there @thecourtneyelmer.

Courtney Elmer - 37:07
Now next week on the show, we're going to talk about the future of online course creation.
Are online courses even still effective? Are they the best way to help your clients get the results that you're promising? Or are people moving away from courses and starting to lean on other mechanisms to grow their businesses? Join me right back here next week to find out, and until then, let's go out and grow through what we go through together.